Here's a little quiz for all you. How much script mark up does it take to write "General rainbow bright" in rainbow colors with a glow filter?

Dude!!!

So... you're all big on smurf hunting and all... but... there's a problem with that.

You see, for chaos day, each dorm on Calvin's campus has some sort of theme. For Beets Veenstra (kelly's dorm) the theme is Ghost Busters. Boer Bennink has a GI Joe theme. My dorm, though, has the theme of smurfs. Yes, you hurd me, smurfs. And let me tell you, no one will be hunting down US. We hunt down the other dorms and kill kill kill. Hooray!

Okay, so I was really going to reply to everything that was said. Really, I was. I haven't been online for a week (apparently a very active week for the R=G blog) and had lots of catching up to do. But now I'm really really hungry and, hey, who thinks well on an empty stomach? Here's what I will say:

I definitely agree with my sister about the debating getting very harsh. I think I remember saying that before, as well. If I said it about Jeff, though, I apologize. Jeff has some very good things to say, and a very efficacious method of presenting his point without insult or personal indignation.

Jamie, I think maybe you should consider your own methods of presentation. Are you sure that the things you say are said in love? It doesn't quite feel that way to me. Don't take this as an attack; it's more of a request. Please say what you have to say in love, you Christian, you.

Okay, gotta eat.

Jesus and Satan have an argument as to who is the better computer programmer. This goes on for a few hours until they agree to hold a contest with God as the judge.

They set themselves before their computers and begin. They type furiously for several hours, lines of code streaming up the screen.

Seconds before the end of the competition, a bolt of lightning strikes, taking out the electricity. Moments later, the power is restored, and God announces that the contest is over. He asks Satan to show what he has come up with. Satan is visibly upset, and cries, "I have nothing! I lost it all when the power went out."

"Very well, then," says God, "let us see if Jesus fared any better."

Jesus enters a command, and the screen comes to life in vivid display, the voices of an angelic choir pour forth from the speakers. Satan is astonished.

He stutters, "But how?! I lost everything yet Jesus' program is intact! How did he do it?"

God chuckles, "Jesus saves."

"so does that mean you don't have anything random or funny to say?" Said the chicken to the roastbeef

sorry, oops

Jon & Jamie & Jeff: I think it's great that you are debating all of these things, but the debates have definitely taken on a very negative tone, which makes visiting this blog not so pleasant. I'm all about friendly debate, but sometimes it goes too far. I'm ready for you all to attack me because you are all just having an "honest disagreement and discussion." It's just that it has come to a point where the negativity far outweighs the cheeriness, randomosity, and pleasantness. It's just not fun anymore. :( Oh well. It doesn't matter. This isn't even my blog. I just wanted you guys to know that it makes me sad. And now I'll leave you to your debating...so long my blogging friends. I'll miss you. *Sniff*

oh... before I get back to work, hope all yall single folks enjoy this - these pickup lines really work!

Christian pick up lines:

- Excuse me, I believe one of your ribs belongs to me.
- My friend told me to come and meet you, he said that you are a really nice person. I think you know him. Jesus, yeah, that's his name.
- You know they say that you have never really dated, until you have dated a Christian.
- Yeah I predicted David over Goliath.
- Did I tell you that my great-uncle was a personal friend of Billy Graham?
- What do you think Paul meant when he said, 'Greet everyone with a holy kiss'?
- You have the body of Amy Grant and the soul of Mother Teresa.
- You know, I'm really into relationship evangelism.
- I'm pretty flexible - I don't think a woman should be submissive on the first date.
- Before tonight, I never believed in predestination.
- Just looking at you makes me feel all ecumenical.
- I hear there's going to be a love offering tonight.
- I want to check your shirt label to see if you were made in heaven.
- I know why Solomon had 700 wives, because he never found you.

Jamie, if I missunderstood I'm sorry... to me, your post seemed more like a rant than "mourning." I didn't mean to attack your post, I agreed with much of it. We should call sin, sin... but mostly calling sin sin is helpful in the context of the church... for example if we found girls that profess Christ making out. Then you should not go easy on them, but hold them to a higher standard... do you know what I mean?

Jesus went easy on the sinners, and was harsh to religious hypocrites... I tend to have the same leanings.

But the difference is that even non-believers believed in moral right and wrongs. what do you mean by that? what morals? the word moral is too general, it can mean something to one person, and something completely different to someone else. "moral" people kill people every day. Sometimes, "immoral" people actually are quite nice people - going to hell, but pretty easy to get along with.

did you mean that back in the day "even non-believers believed in BIBLICAL moral right and wrongs."? Because thats sort of what I was getting at. I believe that statement to be generally true in many cases, BUT I'm not sure that it is worth mourning. Unfortunately, now there are many in our country that believe that they can get to heaven just by being a good american. It has led to a great lukewarmness in the church... now thats worth mourning. Christians should hold each other to a very high standard... but the sinners, well we need to accept and love them as they are. Does this sound reasonable, or crazy.

ummm now Im not getting my work done. ok... back to work

Allow me to quote at length (because, hey, I'm not paying for the server space...)

"Can you imagine a lesbian kiss on national television even 10 years ago? Of course not. Can you imagine the amount of sex that is on just about every sit-com now being acceptable 40 years ago. Of course not. I have had people tell me that the culture is not deteriorating in our country. Thats the most unintelligent and inane comment I have ever heard. Just take a look around. Even non-believers acknowledge it. We are steadily eroding the foundation of morality that our conuntry was built on. Was everybody a christian back in the day? Of course not. But the difference is that even non-believers believed in moral right and wrongs. Even non-belivers acknowledged that there was a clear definition of what was right and wrong. The moral deficiencies we see today are a clear result of the moral ambiguity created by our post-modern culture."

I take issue with almost that entire paragraph. "We are steadily eroding the foundation of morality that our conuntry [sic] was built on." The more that I learn and the more I filter out the propaganda I've been inundated with for my entire life, the more I realize - my country was not founded on morality. My country was founded on rebellion. How does the Revolutionary War stand up to a Romans 13 litmus test? It seems to fail miserably. "Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves." That's what Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, said. Our wonderful, "Godly" forefathers, inspired by greed, said, "[W]hen a long train of abuses and usurpations... reduce[s] them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government." How would Paul feel about that? Oh, I forgot. We were justified because we won. So, point A, I have a country founded on rebellion. I have a country expanded at the expense of the dignity and, yes, even the lives of the indigenous people of this continent. Is that Christ-like? Founded on rebellion, expanded on murder, and enriched on the backs of uncompensated black men and women. Is that Godly? Biblical? Right? And you have the audacity to complain about a sexual publicity stunt? "That shouldn't happen in this Godly nation!"

Well, should that wonderfully moral forefather, Thomas Jefferson, have fathered children with his slave women? Would Jesus condone that? Would Jesus condone slavery? What about adultery? But Jefferson was justified, because he won. That's the way things work in America. He who wins writes the rules. What about righting the wrongs? Did anyone ever think about that? I suppose not. I suppose it was A-OK to screw Mexico out of territory its citizens rightfully owned. I suppose it was OK to annex Hawaii illegally. I suppose it was OK to lock Japanese-Americans up in internment camps during World War II. But a lesbian kiss!? On television? In this moral nation? It can't be!

That is why I say that our standard needs to be the Word of God. Populist morals will constantly be changing. What was permissible 50 years ago is not permissible today, and what is permissible today may not have been permissible 50 years ago and may not be permissible 50 years from now. Stop saying, "Why were the old days better than these?" It is not wise to ask such questions. Especially when the old days weren't that much better.

If we make our standard the Word of God, have an open mind because we only see in part, maybe we can begin to make relevant critiques of culture. I think, though, that if we hold our nation to that standard, it doesn't, and indeed never did, measure up. But that's the beauty of it. Christ didn't come to save "America" or "Tanzania" He came to save people. And if we can get our focus off man-made borders and political ideologies and begin to care about what Jesus cares about - people - we'll be living the way Christ intended us to.

(Now, if you were to make the case that media has declined from an ethical viewpoint in the past few years, that argument might hold some water. But media does not encompass the whole of society.)

Jamie, the reason I rarely jump in the middle of these debates is because by the time I get around to reading it all, it becomes so muttled that I can't figure out what the origional point made was. Plus, all 3 of you guys are alot more politically and biblicaly intelligent than I am. I would most likely end up making points that have already been said in much higher vocabulary and just sound redundant.

But my opinion on "the shocking lesbian kiss", was it really that shocking? The way our media portrays sex these days, you're almost concidered not normal if you're a completly straight female. Either that, or you're just lying and denying if you claim to be completly heterosexual. But what can we do about it? Pray...seriously that's the only thing we really can do about it.....AND the whole foundation of homosexual acts is a spiritual thing, so praying would actually be more affective than protesting (yes I know that sounds completly hypocritical coming from the activist) But if we protest more against it, claiming it's vile and shouldn't be public like that, the church is just gonna be looked at as even more of a "hater". Cause as Jeff said, how can we expect non-christians to act christian?

I just had a thought...why is it only Jeff, Jon, and I that are discussing this issue. I would like to hear what some of you others think. Kairsie, Jesse....

{sigh}

Let me start with Jeffs post.....Jeff: "why do you continue to expect non-christians to act Christian". Umm...I don't. I'm not sure what I said that made it look like that. I'm not surprised at all. I fully expect it. Thats precisly what my post was about.We will see more and more of this in the future. I expect that next year we will see even more "non-Christian" things on TV.

Jeff: "As far as I know, girls kissing girls is not "illegal" in this country..." No Jeff...I didn't say it was.

Jeff: "Thats why our forfathers gave their lives. And that is why our troups are in Iraq - so that even Iraqi lesbians can kiss each other on Iraqi TV without recieving persecution. " First off, you can disagree with military action, thats your business, but the way you mock those who don't is disapointing. {sigh} And I am sorry you are so mistaken about why our forefathers gave their lives. Providing for lesbian kissing has nothing to do with why the founders of this country came here. For the sake of our country and the rest of the world, I hope this view is not a common one.

No one is talking about persecuting anyone....they have all the right in the world to kiss each other. My post had nothing to do with this. My post only mourned the fact that it has become acceptable. You and Jon are so quick to jump down my back that you totally missed what I was saying.

Speaking of you, my dear friend Jon..... :-) .....

Jon: "Someone remind to correct Jamie in the error of his ways when I get a chance". I stand by every word that I said. It is perfectly true to say that alot of our country's standards for morality have slipped over time. My post simply mourned this. It also challanged the church to stand up and say it is wrong. I heard precious few christians stand up and say what happened on MTV was wrong. I am sorry to tell you, but if a Christian stands up and calls sin to task, it is very likely that they will be margianalized and not looked at as "cutting edge". We will not always be able to be accepted in the worlds circles if we choose to stand up and say "that is a sin because the Bible ways so".

I am not sure what you have to attack in my post. I simply stated the fact that in increasing ways homosexuality is being accepted in our culture and that is unfortunate. Then I chastized the church for not calling sin...sin. I then said "Pray for our country...we are the most influencial country on the planet, and MTV is the kind of crap that we are exporting around the world. Pray that the US will return to the beliefs that made it great." Hmmm...I'm sorry to hear that you disagree with this, Jon. Go to another country and you will very likely hear Brittany Spears blasting from radios everywhere. I would have thought you too would be disapointed that this is what other countries see of us.

As I said before, you totally missed the entire point of what i was trying to say. I certainly did not say that wringing our hands and whining was the way to fix it. Absolutely not. Rather, Christians need to "infiltrate" ALL parts of culture....entertainment, government, business, etc....and stand up for truth...whether or not the world always thinks of us as "cutting edge".

Off to eat my lunch...in the 2 minutes I have left after writing this post....I think I have yogurt today....oh and peach pie..should be good.

So what is the whole point? That it wouldn't have happened 40 years ago? You most likely read how I feel about that concept... I think that is missing the whole point.

oh Jeff....you missed the whole point....again.

Heh heh the "DiscussTHIS" blog died. Again.

oh... that thing with kairsie and mel... it is so great. I love it

oh... and I'd take the $115,000,000 and create a foundation. Then id seriously pray really hard. that kind of money (especially if people know you have it) is enough to destroy a person, and all of his closest relationships.

oh... and jamie on the lesbian kiss.... why do you continue to expect non-christians to act Christian? why does it surprize you when the unsaved act unsaved. As far as I know, girls kissing girls is not "illegal" in this country. Thats why our forfathers gave their lives. And that is why our troups are in Iraq - so that even Iraqi lesbians can kiss each other on Iraqi TV without recieving persecution.

but for those who have had a real encounter with Christ it is like "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will." Rom 12:2 etc.